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No Promotion Play Through *COMPLETE*

Discussion about the original classic Genesis/Mega Drive game. Posts about the GBA remake belong in the forum below.

No Promotion Play Through *COMPLETE*

Postby DomingoRules! » Mon Dec 08 2014 12:15pm

I've decided to attempt a no promotion play through of the game, and even try uploading really shitty videos of the attempt on youtube. Hopefully I'll get around to finishing the play through, though it'll probably take a while with everything else that's been going on lately.

Here's the rules for the play through -
1: No promoting characters.
2: Domingo, Musashi, and Hanzou are forbidden, since they clearly break the no promotion rules. I will however likely still recruit them out of force of habit.
3: Once I reach about Chapter 4, I'll start doing a bit of grinding here and there depending on the circumstances, since that's about the point when my characters should be promoted by. How this will work is that any characters who's levels are behind Max at the end of any given battle will be leveled up to match his before starting the next. This includes all characters, and is intended to keep every character usable so I can select my party members depending on the battle at hand, especially later on.
4: Status boosting items will be saved until I reach level 20, in which event they'll probably be mostly used on Max.

Here's the link to the playlist, which currently has the first couple battles uploaded: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... n7OfuErnas
Last edited by DomingoRules! on Sat Aug 20 2016 3:10am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No Promotion Play Through

Postby zexxar » Mon Dec 08 2014 12:52pm

I alreay did that a few years ago as a challenge from MXC.

So be prepared that it will be a very hard challenge and sometimes it can even be really frustrating (Ramladu battle part 2 for me). Your best friend later on will be the Power Ring so make sure that it won't break until you kill of DD.

I hope you know the triggerpoints for the enemies in the later chapters this can make it a bit easier (hit and run tactics), luckily I knew most of them by heart from all the solos I did. :D

Anyway have fun and good luck (you will need it :lol: )
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Re: No Promotion Play Through

Postby DomingoRules! » Mon Dec 08 2014 11:14pm

I know some trigger areas, but I find it best to figure out stuff like that and how they'll work based on the specific circumstances of the play through. I imagine it might help a bit that I'm training up all characters so I can use them as needed. In particular characters like fliers and archers in fights where they'll be especially useful (I know archers will suck since I can't use the Robin Arrow, but Hans and Diane might still be mildly useful in heavy forests because of their movement). I'm also allowing Egress if necessary, and will likely utilize save states later to help ease along some of the tougher battles since that's technically not cheating so long as I stick to only using one; especially in situations where I manage to squeeze past an exceptionally rough part with little to no casualties like the bridge in the Colossus fight. Fortunately, the game should still be a breeze for the most part up until about Chapter 6 or 7. I know when I did my four-man army play through a while back, it wasn't until about Kane that I Finally promoted my characters.

Honestly, I think my biggest concern is simply Dark Dragon. Other fights I'm sure can be managed with exceptional tactics and foresight, but Dark Dragon is another story simply because of his massive HP pool. I'll definitely be saving my Healing Rains for that fight, and will probably retry the Darksol battle if I lose even a single character.
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Re: No Promotion Play Through

Postby Antman 537 » Tue Dec 09 2014 8:50pm

I'll be interested to see how this goes as it gets later alright. I'll have to keep tabs on this.

What if we did a team game like this? :shifty:
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Re: No Promotion Play Through

Postby zexxar » Tue Dec 09 2014 10:18pm

I'm sure the team game would never finish because chapter 7 and 8 really have some annoying parts, which can make you lose the motivation to finish them.

Also IIRC correct (haven't played the vanilla version the last few years) Archer can use the Elven Arrow (Robin Arrow) unpromoted because Lyle starts with it.
Trent @ Sun Apr 10 2011 1:00pm wrote:You're the ultimate team player zexxar, always coming to the rescue!


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Trent @ Sun Apr 10 2011 1:00pm wrote:You're the ultimate team player zexxar, always coming to the rescue!


samsengir wrote:Zexxar is a fabulous human being with more sex appeal in his little finger than all of F&G put together. Possibly all of SFC combined.
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Re: No Promotion Play Through

Postby wyldephang » Mon Dec 22 2014 6:29am

I had intended to play through for as long as possible without promoting my characters, but I eventually broke down. It got to the point where Max couldn't get through a battle without getting wasted in a single strike. Hopefully, you'll have better luck. :)
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Re: No Promotion Play Through

Postby DomingoRules! » Mon Dec 22 2014 8:43pm

wyldephang wrote:I had intended to play through for as long as possible without promoting my characters, but I eventually broke down. It got to the point where Max couldn't get through a battle without getting wasted in a single strike. Hopefully, you'll have better luck. :)

Well, this isn't my first time doing something like this in a game. I once tried to beat Chrono Trigger with only fighting bosses, and other mandatory fights (though I did also fight all of the "Fated Hour" bosses). Got to "The Final Battle" at about level 18 (or was it 28? I can't remember anymore) thanks to 100s of hours of experience at the game (over many years) coupled with tactical armor utilization for tackling each specific boss. Couldn't beat Lavos though because his initial laser beam attack wiped out my entire party no matter how I arranged my equipment. Maybe if I had gotten the Prism Dress instead of the Helms, but oh well.

Anyway, I just posted a few more videos, but am still not far enough for things to be exciting. Progress has been slow because of Smash Bros, shopping, holiday season at work, and revisiting Vanguard Bandits.
Last edited by DomingoRules! on Mon Aug 15 2016 7:30am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No Promotion Play Through

Postby wyldephang » Mon Dec 22 2014 10:50pm

DomingoRules! wrote:Well, this isn't my first time doing something like this in a game. I once tried to beat Chrono Trigger with only fighting bosses, and other mandatory fights (though I did also fight all of the "Fated Hour" bosses). Got to "The Final Battle" at about level 18 (or was it 28? I can't remember anymore) thanks to 100s of hours of experience at the game coupled with tactical armor utilization for tackling each specific boss. Couldn't beat Lavos though because his initial laser beam attack wiped out my entire party no matter how I arranged my equipment. Maybe if I had gotten the Prism Dress instead of the Helms, but oh well.


Wow. If I were to try that, I would almost certainly do it on an emulator with save states. (At least as a practice run.) To get to Lavos only to realize that one small miscalculation in your equipment cost you the entire challenge--that's rough.

DomingoRules! wrote:Anyway, I just posted a few more videos, but am still not far enough for things to be exciting. Progress as been slow because of Smash Bros, shopping, holiday season at work, and revisiting Vanguard Bandits.


I can relate. My gaming came to a complete stop during finals, and it's only now that I'm able to start playing again. Enjoy the holidays, though!
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Re: No Promotion Play Through

Postby DomingoRules! » Tue Dec 23 2014 4:30am

Save states? Meh. The point of a "challenge" run if you ask me is not knowing whether or not you'll succeed when starting. And then when that impassible hurdle is reached, taking satisfaction in how far was reached. Something like that is less about beating the game, and more about seeing just how far I can push myself under the most extreme of circumstances.

When I did that Chrono Trigger run, it was on an SNES cartridge.

*Edit: Things are still progressing slowly, but at least now I no longer need to use my 3DS for capturing the footage. Recently picked up something for transferring VHS to DVD, and that also can be rigged up to capture footage directly from my gaming consoles so long as I use the AV cable for hookup. Doesn't help make the gameplay any more interesting to watch, but at least drastically improves the quality.

*Another Edit (a post from somebody else would be nice if for no other reason than being able to bump this topic myself when posting): So, I've gotten up to Elliot, though haven't gotten that much quite posted yet. I've also been looking into the possibility of adding commentary to the videos, but had no luck finding the adapter component I'd need to make that possible with the recording device I'm using. In getting to the Elliot battle though, I've realized that WARR can't use the Heat Axe. I was planning on farming four for both Luke and Gort, but so much for that. So... Does that mean that those two characters will wind up being relatively useless by the end of the game? Without the strength of those axes and the ability to cast magic with them, I can't really see them bringing anything to the table that the KNTs won't except for better movement outside.
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Re: No Promotion Play Through

Postby DomingoRules! » Thu Feb 05 2015 6:43am

Currently I'm grinding in the Kane/Cain/Cane battle. Since it's such an easy fight to do so, I decided now would be as good a time as any to level everybody up to 20 so I no longer need to worry about anybody falling behind. That way I can use characters much more interchangeably depending on the needs of any given battle without that resulting in being behind in levels with some characters. Might result in me being a tad overpowered for a while, but I doubt that'll last long at this point in the game. I can already feel my weapons and unpromoted stats starting to impact my efficacy against some of these enemies (especially when trying to damage Golems without magic).
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Re: No Promotion Play Through

Postby zexxar » Fri Feb 06 2015 7:13am

Make sure to level Bleu because he will get be one of the best melee characters.

But anyway how does your team look like at the moment?

This was my final team
Final Stats:
Stats HP/MP/Att/Def/Agi/Move
Max 39/13/41/22/19/6 Power Ring
Mae 36/0/35/21/22/7
Guntz 24/0/42/33/15/6 Mobility Ring
Anri 20/40/26/16/24/5
Tao 22/42/23/17/24/5
Lowe 25/28/26/14/5 (level 17) White Ring
Khris 21/30/27/15/19/5 (level 18)Speed Ring
Diane 28/0/37/20/19/5
Lyle 25/0/40/17/19/7
Kokichi 30/0/35/19/19/6
Bleu 32/0/49/29/17/7 Turbo Pepper
Zylo 25/0/42/22/25/7
Trent @ Sun Apr 10 2011 1:00pm wrote:You're the ultimate team player zexxar, always coming to the rescue!


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Trent @ Sun Apr 10 2011 1:00pm wrote:You're the ultimate team player zexxar, always coming to the rescue!


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Re: No Promotion Play Through

Postby DomingoRules! » Fri Feb 06 2015 10:15am

I'm leveling everybody so I can use them interchangeably depending on the battle. Tonight I just wrapped up getting everybody up to level 20 during the Kane battle for that purpose, since it's such an easy battle to do so. My party for that battle is going to be Max, Pelle, Ken, Arthur, Vankar, Guntz, Anri, Tao, Gong, Diane, Hans, and Lyle. Every following battle I'll evaluate my party against factors such as the enemies and battlefield. For example, in the next fight I'm probably going to mainly use fliers, and characters such as warriors, elves, and Zylo for battling the terrain and that troublesome narrow pathway through the mountains near the beginning.

Edit: All right, this is going to be a doozy of a post. I just wrapped up grinding Torasu, Alef, and Adam to level 20 during the Chaos battle, and so I've decided to post my characters final* stats.
*Stat-boosting items haven't yet been used. Those will likely be distributed based on what I need for the final battle.

Max
HP: 35
MP: 12
Attack: 34
Defense: 20
Move: 6
Agility: 19
Spells: Egress Level 1

Mae
HP: 35
Attack: 35
Defense: 20
Move: 7
Agility: 21

Pelle
HP: 29
Attack: 37
Defense: 25
Move: 7
Agility: 22

Ken
HP: 32
Attack: 38
Defense: 22
Move: 7
Agility: 21

Vankar
HP: 36
Attack: 33
Defense: 23
Move: 7
Agility: 23

Earnest
HP: 30
Attack: 34
Defense: 20
Move: 7
Agility: 23

Arthur
HP: 37
MP: 10
Attack: 39
Defense: 22
Move: 7
Agility: 26
Spells: Blaze 1, Freeze 1

Gort
HP: 29
Attack: 36
Defense: 25
Move: 6
Agility: 17

Luke
HP: 27
Attack: 36
Defense: 27
Move: 6
Agility: 19

Guntz
HP: 24
Attack: 41
Defense: 28
Move: 4
Agility: 15

Anri
HP: 18
MP: 43
Attack: 26
Defense: 15
Move: 5
Agility: 22
Spells: Blaze 2, Freeze 3, Muddle 1, Bolt 1

Alef
HP: 20
MP: 41
Attack: 23
Defense: 15
Move: 5
Agility: 25
Spells: Blaze 2, Freeze 2, Bolt 2

Tao
HP: 22
MP: 43
Attack: 23
Defense: 15
Move: 5
Agility: 25
Spells: Blaze 4, Sleep 1, Dispel 1

Lowe
HP: 26
MP: 37
Attack: 31
Defense: 15
Move: 5
Agility: 17
Spells: Heal 3, Detox 1, Slow 2, Quick 1

Khris
HP: 26
MP: 32
Attack: 27
Defense: 16
Move: 5
Agility: 18
Spells: Heal 3, Slow 1, Quick 1, Aura 1

Torasu
HP: 27
MP: 33
Attack: 26
Defense: 16
Move: 5
Agility: 18
Spells: Heal 2, Detox 1, Shield 1, Aura 2

Gong
HP: 31
MP: 28
Attack: 37
Defense: 22
Move: 5
Agility: 16
Spells: Heal 3

Diane
HP: 28
Attack: 36
Defense: 16
Move: 5
Agility: 18

Hans
HP: 30
Attack: 35
Defense: 21
Move: 5
Agility: 20

Lyle
HP: 24
Attack: 42
Defense: 16
Move: 7
Agility: 17

Amon
HP: 31
Attack: 33
Defense: 17
Move: 7
Agility: 23

Balbaroy
HP: 25
Attack: 30
Defense: 20
Move: 7
Agility: 21

Kokichi
HP: 28
Attack: 36
Defense: 18
Move: 6
Agility: 19

Bleu
HP: 30
Attack: 45
Defense: 31
Move: 5
Agility: 15

Adam
HP: 34
Attack: 34
Defense: 35
Move: 4
Agility: 22

Zylo
HP: 28
Attack: 39
Defense: 24
Move: 7
Agility: 25

Additional notes: Max and Earnest are by far my most useless party members. Sure Amon and Balbaroy are weak, but at least they've managed to prove themselves useful in outside battles because of their mobility by providing aid to Bleu and Kokichi while sticking to the mountains. Earnest though I just haven't been able to justify using once post level 20 during battles where he'd be able to move over any of the other knights, on top of also needing to put in my mages and archers and such. I'm also disappointed by Ken's HP, hoping it would've gotten a bit higher for absorbing magic attacks in the last chapter, but at least he's still overall solid.
Last edited by DomingoRules! on Mon Feb 16 2015 11:07am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No Promotion Play Through

Postby wyldephang » Thu Feb 12 2015 11:06am

I remember having a lot of trouble keeping Max alive just before promoting him. It seemed that no matter the enemy, he'd always go down after a hit. Is that the problem you're having with him?
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Re: No Promotion Play Through

Postby DomingoRules! » Mon Feb 16 2015 11:06am

The problem isn't keeping Max alive. The problem is that he's just... Useless. His attack power is too low to deal any damage, he can't take a whole lot of abuse anymore from enemies, and it's not worth risking getting him into the fray just to deal inconsequential damage. I'm finding myself just keeping him far back as possible behind all my other characters while using the White Ring from a distance to heal when needed. If he couldn't use the ring unpromoted, I wouldn't even bother moving him from his initial spot anymore just to keep him away from the action. Not that I really need my 400,000 gold since all I'm spending it on is ring repairs and healing seeds, but still.

Well, it's happened. After a couple rough battles in Chapter 7 (including one I thought I was screwed because I lost my Power Ring wielder way too early), I've finally made it to Chapter 8 (though haven't yet posted the last Chapter 7 battle on youtube since I just finished it a moment ago). With that being the case, I'll likely start posting (or editing) on here a bit more frequently to keep things up-to-date now that the real battle has begun. The game hasn't been too tough so far, but I imagine the chimeras (oh, and those other enemies) will be fixing that soon. That also means it's about time to start RNG abusing for status spells, and to make sure my rings don't get damaged while I still need their effects. Just so long as I always save to one file, it's not cheating outside of the game's natural boundaries since save states are just like the Quit option, just quicker.

Going into the first battle of Chapter 8, I'll be attempting it with Max (White Ring), Arthur (Black Ring unequipped), Ken (Evil Ring unequipped), Tao (Speed Ring), Alef, Anri, Gong, Diane, Lyle, Guntz (Mobility Ring), Zylo, and Bleu (Power Ring). That should give me lots of hard hitters, plenty of magic to bypass the increasing defenses of the enemy forces, range for taking advantage of a few crappy enemy detection ranges in the battle, decent survivability with my characters, and a healer who can also sometimes dish out more than one damage when attacking to further increase my crappy damage output.

This is kind of exciting (granted it would be more so if I didn't already know that others have done this before). Trying to beat the game without promoting is something I wanted to do ever since I was a kid, though back then I had no idea about the level 20 cap.

Edit: All right. Here we are. Chapter 8.
Battle 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc7aCIfN7zk
Battle 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuKi1fulbXo
Both battles had their tricky moments, and I needed to RNG abuse a bit with the Power Ring, but otherwise things are going well so far. Also, Ramladu hit Vankar for 121 damage.

I do have a question though that I hope gets answered, assuming anybody who sees this even knows. Does Shield work against Demon Blaze?
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Re: No Promotion Play Through

Postby wyldephang » Wed Feb 18 2015 6:43am

Vankar would be the one who gets critted for 121 HP. Also, I chuckled when you saved the game right before scoring the final hit on Ramladu. The cursor was on Max and I assumed you were going to take him up the ramp and steal the kill shot.
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Re: No Promotion Play Through

Postby DomingoRules! » Sun Feb 22 2015 7:01am

wyldephang wrote:Vankar would be the one who gets critted for 121 HP. Also, I chuckled when you saved the game right before scoring the final hit on Ramladu. The cursor was on Max and I assumed you were going to take him up the ramp and steal the kill shot.

I was very much contemplating letting Max score the glorious kill as it may wind up being his last chance to really do anything significant, but decided against it due to boss evasion.

Progress has been at a halt lately because of electrical issues at the house. Hopefully that'll pass soon so I can wrap things up. I did attempt the Colossus battle once so far, but didn't get very far. I miscalculated how things would go with the Chimeras and Blue Dragons at the beginning since it's been so long, so I'll need to rethink a couple things with that in mind before trying again.
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Re: No Promotion Play Through

Postby wyldephang » Sun Feb 22 2015 8:49am

Of course. The Chimaeras strike again. Electrical issues? Are you one of the people affected by the massive winter storms that have been blowing through the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic? By the way, I just noticed that you had your sixth anniversary here at SFC. Way to go. :thumbsup:
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Re: No Promotion Play Through

Postby DomingoRules! » Tue Feb 24 2015 7:21pm

I don't live anywhere near there. The issues are more personal.
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Re: No Promotion Play Through

Postby Balbazak » Mon Mar 02 2015 8:48pm

I should read more topics, this looks like fun! I was wondering how the hell you would beat the Ramladu robots, but then saw/remembered that they all have <30 HP, so that makes it possible. I noticed you burned some RN's from time to time, those blinks super handy, like on the Arthur deadly freeze. :)

As for Shield for Demon Breath/Blaze... I'm not sure, it's been too long.

Best of luck with the Darksol fight, as long as you only go straight up the center (and mind the gap) it should be a breeze. And then Darksol himself, he has 150HP right?
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