The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Mon Jul 13 2009 7:04pm
by BigNailCow
The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

IMPORTANT NOTE: The reason I call it UNSTABLE is that... well, it's unstable and untested. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not *expect* anything to work 100%, as I didn't get to test it much. ALWAYS make backups of your ROM. I refuse to let anybody download it who hasn't read this blurb :shock: , so the link is the Kiwi emoticon I just used.

I am releasing this because it's been 7 months since the last release, but v0.6 is not completely done yet. I have recently decided to do a major overhaul of the Caravan, so I don't want to make you all wait months for the piddly features that are in now.

New features:Ability to import/export all graphics, except battle floors, weapon sprites, and spell animations which only have export, due to the funky way they're saved.Saving now works for maps*, tilesets, battle sprites, and portraits.The combination of the above two means you can now easily get custom graphics into the game.Tile animations section under Map Definitions is mostly implemented.Rearranged battle sprites editor. MOST PROPERTIES ARE NOT IMPLEMENTED.Also use this thread as a bug report thread. And there's a very good chance I'll have to eat crow and upload a bugfixed version almost immediately.

Good luck, and don't hate me too much! The next version will be 0.7.

* I know for certain map saving sometimes breaks. Be careful!

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Mon Jul 13 2009 7:12pm
by Destructiox
Huzzah, it's here! Let's hope the bug reports posted here will launch us quickly towards v0.7 :)

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Mon Jul 13 2009 7:54pm
by Hirsute
*bows down and worships BNC*

Oh how I have been waiting for this! Thank you thank you thank you.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Mon Jul 13 2009 9:18pm
by Seifert Tyrin'Dal
Very nice. I'll download this tonight and try and find as many bugs as I can. :excited: But seriously big thanks BNC. You are my hero.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15 2009 3:03am
by Zoidberg
aha sweet man :shock:

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Thu Jul 16 2009 4:41am
by Flood]Hatred
Looks good. I'm downloading it right now.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Thu Jul 16 2009 1:24pm
by Drakonis
I've tried around with it a bit. Everything went fine so far, but when I tried to import some of the SFCG sprites all I got was garbeled mess. I guess this has to do with the range of colours used? Because when exporting, changing and importing sprites I'm limited to the palette SFII gave me, and it works fine.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Thu Jul 16 2009 8:53pm
by Stordarth
Drakonis @ Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:24 pm) wrote: I've tried around with it a bit. Everything went fine so far, but when I tried to import some of the SFCG sprites all I got was garbeled mess. I guess this has to do with the range of colours used? Because when exporting, changing and importing sprites I'm limited to the palette SFII gave me, and it works fine.

yeah, unless you import with the file saved as 16 colours, it will garble

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Thu Jul 16 2009 9:49pm
by Drakonis
huh, I tried with Gwyneth BRN first frame, converted it to 16 colours and it seems to treat true black in a odd way. it was sometimes different tones of grey, and sometimes transparent (speak: the light/dark paterned grey background it uses for this)... and pure white is in fact white, so there could be some work for me to rework all the sprites so they work in the caravan :(

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17 2009 2:50am
by Flood]Hatred
I've been using this since last night and so far have encountered no problems. I was even able to edit maps, save, and have no problems playing in them. But ofcourse I only made minor edits. Only problem I had is I tried to replace kiwi's overworld sprites with gunts and all the black in it was gone.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17 2009 3:52am
by Seifert Tyrin'Dal
Flood]Hatred @ Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:50 pm) wrote: I've been using this since last night and so far have encountered no problems. I was even able to edit maps, save, and have no problems playing in them. But ofcourse I only made minor edits. Only problem I had is I tried to replace kiwi's overworld sprites with gunts and all the black in it was gone.

When you import a sprite black is always treated as the transparent color. From my experience you need to go back and replace anything that WAS black before the import and change it to actually be black.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17 2009 4:11am
by Flood]Hatred
Seifert Tyrin'Dal @ Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:52 pm) wrote: When you import a sprite black is always treated as the transparent color. From my experience you need to go back and replace anything that WAS black before the import and change it to actually be black.

Ah. Thanks, that worked. I have Kiwi walking around as Gunts from SF1 now.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18 2009 8:19am
by Destructiox
All of a sudden, all those hours working on SF1.5 seems like a waste, with all this importing being available now :( All that drawing for nothing :p

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21 2009 6:25am
by Tonberry2k
Whoops, forgot to comment. I'm super-excited for this. I'm messing with it now and I've already gotten Geshp and Odd Eye from it. Great job, man. :D

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21 2009 7:07am
by Flygon
And thus, the sprite rips are FINALLY finishing. :thumbsup:

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21 2009 8:27pm
by Tonberry2k
Flygon @ Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:07 am) wrote: And thus, the sprite rips are FINALLY finishing. :thumbsup:

Hey, I know you. :p

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21 2009 11:45pm
by Flygon
Yeah, when will you finish the Marionette. :eyebrow:

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22 2009 4:28am
by Tonberry2k
Image Image

Note the floating sword in #1. It doesn't look so bad when he attacks. The next version should have rotations to fix that problem. I should also try a better gif next time instead of Bowie's palette.

And I'll get Marionette's back sprites as soon as I get a savestate at the circus with a flying character. Working on it now...
EDIT: Finished Marionette. Finally.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22 2009 6:29am
by Flygon
About the palette issue, just change the palette to the one used by Shining Force II assuming you can do so, I can give you some tools for hacking palettes out of save states if you like so you can get the ones out of Shining Force I.

Also, yay, back sprites!

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26 2009 10:33pm
by EmperorCesar
Were can this be downloaded?

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27 2009 3:35pm
by ZeXr0
Read the entire first post. It is explained how to download it.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27 2009 5:11pm
by Destructiox
EmperorCesar @ Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:33 pm) wrote: Were can this be downloaded?

And this is why BNC wrote his first post as such.

Adding on to that, you should be sure to read the entire first post before downloading.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28 2009 8:38pm
by EmperorCesar
Ah, stupid me. Thanks for pointing that out for me.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15 2009 1:01am
by scravanger
Good job!!!

got a question for anyone that might know. Trying to edit outerworld map and everytime i edit anything - the data gets corrupted (graphics).
Like when i edit any town - it works great afterwards, while if i try to edit grans (outside) all the graphics (tiles) are corrupted, game is still playable though but beyond any visual recognition.

Is there is a way around it or its not yet fully implemented?

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15 2009 8:48am
by Destructiox
scravanger @ Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:01 am) wrote: Good job!!!

got a question for anyone that might know. Trying to edit outerworld map and everytime i edit anything - the data gets corrupted (graphics).
Like when i edit any town - it works great afterwards, while if i try to edit grans (outside) all the graphics (tiles) are corrupted, game is still playable though but beyond any visual recognition.

Is there is a way around it or its not yet fully implemented?

I'd wager a guess that it's not working properly. Try the changes you made in a fresh 4MB rom however and see if the problems persist. If they do, I'd take that as a loss on the caravan's part and move on without it.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15 2009 11:24pm
by scravanger
4mb rom. in the editor ot shows fine but the graphics gets corrupted when the game is being played.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15 2009 11:39pm
by Destructiox
Then i'm going to guess when the new data is saved into the rom it corrupts the data in one form or another. Unfortunately, you'll have to wait for a fix on that.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16 2009 1:23am
by Stordarth
I ran into this issue on certain maps. i documented which maps edit ok, and created a log of which maps currently break in someway.

Placed into spoiler tag to save space, as it is quite large:

WARNING: SPOILER!

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16 2009 4:29pm
by Destructiox
Oooh, that's juicy info Stordarth, hopefully BNC gets a good look at this and can figure out what's going on pretty easily.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21 2009 8:39am
by xxdayoffatexx
New build... time to break this one too! :)

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08 2009 1:06am
by Croupier
Where can you download the newest version?

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08 2009 1:04pm
by Stordarth
Croupier @ Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:06 am) wrote: Where can you download the newest version?

This is the latest version. Read the 1st post in it's entirity.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04 2010 6:18pm
by Daegen
I have a question, I've been playing around with it but when I tried to import a custom portrait, the black color was registered as nothing (like mentioned earlier), but I haven't found a way to directly edit the portraits via the Caravan. Does anybody know a way around this so I can use black in the portrait? Any help would be very much apreciated.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Fri Mar 05 2010 5:31pm
by Stordarth
The issue you are having is a palette issue. You need a program that can rearrange palette colours, Like Paintshop pro or GIMP (the latter being free). You have to reorder your colours so that the very first colour in the palette is for transparent (or unused in the case of portraits) sections). The second colour should be white, and the third, black. the other 13 can be any order.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Fri Mar 05 2010 6:58pm
by Daegen
That makes sense, thanks a ton for the help.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26 2010 1:26pm
by CajNatalie
For the guys converting SFII to SFI... how are you going to deal with the fact SFII projects to Level 30 for stats?
I haven't seen any way to change this in either this or Space King's editors... so wouldn't this mean you'd have to make it so you have the Level 20 stats as Level 30 stats, and monsters' levels become 1.5x what they should be... and make promotions begin at Level 15 instead of 10? :eyebrow:

I mean, there's no way to just 'approximate' what you think will happen at Level 20 and just raise the Level 30 stats... because with characters like Arthur, this might not work at all the way it was originally supposed to. :(

I just woke up, BTW, but these questions are all legitimate and bother me a lot. :damnit:

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26 2010 2:41pm
by Siel
QUOTE (CajNatalie @ Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:26 am)I mean, there's no way to just 'approximate' what you think will happen at Level 20 and just raise the Level 30 stats... because with characters like Arthur, this might not work at all the way it was originally supposed to. :(Edit: Okay, I think understand what you meant with that sentence now. The "there's no way" misled me.

Original useless post:
WARNING: SPOILER!

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26 2010 3:34pm
by CajNatalie
Late growths don't even go above the Linear growths in percentage until after Level 20... Early-Late growths don't get the late part until after Level 20. Middle growths finish their high gains a couple levels before Level 20.

You can't have anything other than Linear and Early to work with Level 20 as the maximum unpromoted level (though Middle could work as a Late... but it's slightly too early, still... so I can't go with this).

Problem not solved. :blush:

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26 2010 6:19pm
by Obob
Just because the editor doesn't allow you to change these things doesn't mean it's not possible to change them. You just have to actually know how to hack the game.

If you're recreating all of SF1 in the SF2 engine, you'd better know a hell of a lot more about hacking than just being able to use the editors.

The stat growth system in SF1 is also completely different from the one in SF2, anyways. That's why some characters in SF1 get huge boosts at certain levels, while in SF2 everything is much more evenly distributed.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26 2010 6:43pm
by CajNatalie
Keeping the volatile stat gain mechanics of SF1 isn't really necessary... it's all part of adopting the SF2 game engine... but the fact is that overall characters are assigned late, early, etcetera growth rates, so it becomes necessary to hack in to the projection code and change the 30 to 20.

So for the people doing this conversion, personally, unless someone has the leet hacking skills necessary and can do all this, I think it's too early to be doing it... since the tools aren't complete enough yet to facilitate such a conversion fully.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26 2010 6:49pm
by Obob
I wasn't aware anybody was seriously working on a conversion. I agree that it is clearly too early to do it even half-decently just using the editors.

In the grand scheme of things, though, changing the stat growth formulas is a really small issue. Simply the fact that we know where in the ROM the stat growth data is located means that it probably isn't too tough to change it.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26 2010 10:35pm
by Destructiox
Eh, I ported the bosses from SFI into SFII (with the help of our very own Lord Oddeye Sama) alongside a few icons, but nothing more serious than that.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sat May 01 2010 4:30pm
by Kiego
Ahhh! man! forum hack everyone! lets do it! I'm gonna mess around with this the rest of my life;Battle sprite viewer made me jizz a little. Its only a matter of time before BNC cracks back animations too! I should start making sprite rips right now? What do you guys think? BNC gonna make this happen?

I'm gonna re-edit sprites anyway...

EDIT:

ver 6 wont run anymore? it worked 5 mins ago but now its like shutting down every time i load the rom and click a tab, fails to respond.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sun May 02 2010 1:45am
by Destructiox
Could you be any more specific than that? Link to a screenshot of what happens, what error messages pop up, etc?

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sun May 02 2010 5:44am
by Kiego
i found the problem, im on windows 7 and i needed to switch to windows basic or something? well i picked my windows theme and it works fine now?

weird windows 7 glitch

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sun May 02 2010 4:40pm
by Destructiox
Yeah, it's having issues with 7.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Tue May 04 2010 7:17pm
by Kiego
I tried experimenting with max in slade pallete, the knife juggling couldn't be helped. Also the background is gone? I wonder why.

Image
Image
Image

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Tue Jun 29 2010 2:04pm
by Flaming Manakin
A newby question on this hacking stuff, but is it possible to add monsters to battles? Clicking the 'add monster' button on battles makes an Ooze sprite appear at present.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Tue Jun 29 2010 4:13pm
by Stordarth
Flaming Manakin @ Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:04 pm) wrote: A newby question on this hacking stuff, but is it possible to add monsters to battles? Clicking the 'add monster' button on battles makes an Ooze sprite appear at present.

Not sure if i'm using a slightly advanced version of the editor, but yes, the add monster button does work.

That ooze that appears needs to be reassigned a different Monster ID, which appears next to the sprite on the bottom left of the window (you should see it amongst all the monster AI stuff in that part of the window). once you have the monster, you then click where on the map you want it to go.

just a note: Make sure there are no more than 32 individual units in total on a map (includes monsters, players and npcs), as this is the limit the emulator can work with in memory before graphical garbage starts occuring.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Tue Jun 29 2010 5:12pm
by Flaming Manakin
Thanks man, that's great.

I've played a handful of the current hacks, but I've not seen any changes in monster locations or types on monsters in battles. Is this right? I'd have imagined that would have been a quite cool but easy way of spicing up the game.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Tue Jun 29 2010 5:13pm
by Destructiox
just a note: Make sure there are no more than 32 individual units in total on a map (includes monsters, players and npcs), as this is the limit the emulator can work with in memory before graphical garbage starts occuring.


Also, don't try to put Zeon, Taros and/or Kraken in the same battle. It doesn't hold together too well for the game.

EDIT:

I've played a handful of the current hacks, but I've not seen any changes in monster locations or types on monsters in battles. Is this right? I'd have imagined that would have been a quite cool but easy way of spicing up the game.


I'd assume thats because people have changed the monster's stats, as opposed to which monsters are in the battle. I've not played many SFII hacks though, so i wouldn't know the exact changes.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Wed Jun 30 2010 3:56am
by SirHedge
Flaming Manakin @ Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:12 am) wrote:I've played a handful of the current hacks, but I've not seen any changes in monster locations or types on monsters in battles. Is this right? I'd have imagined that would have been a quite cool but easy way of spicing up the game.

You should check out the hack library. There's at least one example of enemies being moved around battles.

http://forums.shiningforcecentral.com/i ... t&p=360246

Drakonis @ Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:44 am) wrote:Hedges' SFII Remake Hack
Even though unfinished, this hack redesigns the battles and rebalances them vastly. This is the first hack I know of which replaces some of the enemies with ones who usually appear later in the game.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Wed Jun 30 2010 7:41am
by BigNailCow
I've got a few unfinished hacks that use that. I might have changed a few things in my original hardtype hack, can't remember.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Fri Jul 02 2010 11:21am
by Ose
There doesn’t appear to be any one place where editing information is posted, so I’ll post here (let me know if this should be moved).

My newest snag is the apparent inability to add members to the force.

I am attempting to build a small level, that would consist of a brief town/story section followed by a battle.

The conflict is that I would like to use the space king editor to drop equipment into peoples inventories. which seems to only work for level one characters. I would also prefer characters with stats that begin with exactly the numbers I input, which I believe rules out a late game save state option.

I had an idea that I may be able to edit the maps where a few areas where characters join are linked in rapid succession.

I have also run into various minor problems with the caravan editor.

So my real question is where/who should I turn to for specific answers regarding the editors? I don’t think bogging down the forums with every minor question I have is a good idea. If someone is willing to put up with my stupid questions I’d be happy to lend my time to help with someone else’s project in return (like doing any of the none code related tedious stuff). I currently have lots of free time.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Fri Jul 02 2010 12:35pm
by Stordarth
Ose @ Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:21 am) wrote: There doesn?t appear to be any one place where editing information is posted, so I?ll post here (let me know if this should be moved).

My newest snag is the apparent inability to add members to the force.

I am attempting to build a small level, that would consist of a brief town/story section followed by a battle.

The conflict is that I would like to use the space king editor to drop equipment into peoples inventories. which seems to only work for level one characters. I would also prefer characters with stats that begin with exactly the numbers I input, which I believe rules out a late game save state option.

I had an idea that I may be able to edit the maps where a few areas where characters join are linked in rapid succession.

I have also run into various minor problems with the caravan editor.

So my real question is where/who should I turn to for specific answers regarding the editors? I don?t think bogging down the forums with every minor question I have is a good idea. If someone is willing to put up with my stupid questions I?d be happy to lend my time to help with someone else?s project in return (like doing any of the none code related tedious stuff). I currently have lots of free time.

When you say add members to the force, do you mean addin members beyond the 12 normally available?

The town/story section doesnt have quite the freedom to edit fully yet. If you're building a single battle, i would suggest using a battle that you know occurs in a town, and that you know possesses its own cutscene right before the battle, and edit the text. It's clunky i know, but its all we can do for now.

When you say drop items into character's inventories with the editor, I'm assuming you mean set their items up so they come with them by default. This works for characters of any level. One the Character Start Data, you can set all 4 starting items, and also the character's starting level and class. To have the characters start with the required stats you enter isn't possible in the straight forward sense, but you can get a rough idea by using a little bit of thought:

You have no doubt seen the starting and projected stat entries on the character stats screen. the starting stats are stats given at level 1, and the projected stats are what the stats will become at level 30. Next you have your growth rates. As i recall from discussions with BNC and spaceking on the subject, the growth rates split the level curve into 3 segments, each being 10 levels.

Lets use an easy curve as an example for what I mean:

lets say you have 11 hp at level 1, and 40 hp at level 30 (base and projected stats). Subtract the 10 from the 40, and this gives you the total HP gain over the 29 level ups you will acquire. Linear curve gives 33% of that value in each segment, so each level up will be 1 hp. from brief test i did a while ago, the early curve gives between 45 and 50% of the total stat difference in the first 10 levels. I'm unsure if the second and third segments have identical percentages, or if the second has a higher one. I'm guessing the latter, as its a curve. this would put the middle bit at between 30 and 35%, and the last curve at about 20%. (these are rough guesses, but should give a rough guide)

Late is the opposite of early.

Early + late gives the first and third segments about 40% weight, and the middle section about 20%.

so so lets say we set an early curve on our above example, and set the starting level to 15.

the first segment gives about 50%, as stated, and 50% gives about 14-15 HP in the first 10 levels, making us on about 24-25 hp. the next 5 levels give about 30%, which is between 8 and 9. This means one or two levels probably wont give hp. given the curve, these are more likely to occur in the later teens, but lets assume we have a level that doesnt give us one. we gain 4 hp in the 5 levels of that curve. Add them on, and we're on 28-29 hp at level 15.

Like I said, this is a rough guideline so that you can estimate your stats at a given level based on your chosen curve.

Not sure what you mean with characters linking and joining in rapid succession.

For more detailed help, if the help given with the programs hasn't answered the question, pose them to the forums first. Some of us have had extensive use of both editors, and can probably answer alot of your queries. When we can't, ask BigNailCow (BNC) for the caravan, and Space King for the sf2 editor.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Fri Jul 02 2010 2:17pm
by BigNailCow
Posting questions here is fine.

I think Ose means he can't control when characters get added to the force (like SARAH and CHESTER do in the school at the beginning). This is correct, as these actions are part of the map's scripting and aren't yet editable. You'll currently need to do some ASM hacking to accomplish that.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Fri Jul 02 2010 11:16pm
by Ose
I have managed to control when characters get added to the force by adding warps into the maps that take me directly to areas where I can recruit new characters.

Now if only I can get this to work without messing up the graphics...

As for character stats I already have a fairly good sense of how the growth rates work, but thanks for the brief recap.

If all else fails I think I’ll just have everyone join at the level cap, and then promote them. In a longer game format I wouldn’t be so picky about the stats being exact, but since I’m only doing one battle I want the balance to be perfect.

Thanks for all the support and info!

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12 2011 6:55am
by Vegeta9001
Wow this is awesome. ^^

I can change the sprites which i did now the Hero look like Link. ^^

I can also change the battle to make them harder do everything is nice.

I only got few problem so far.

1: Can i change the heroes/monster names, stats. level?

2: Changing the dialogues, there is no search option to find the dialogues I want to edit?

It's extremely hard and long to find a dialogue in like 68 box of dialogue. :shock:

I'm trying to find the dialogues of Slade i the opening scene and when the old witch talk to you.

Also the dialogues in the begining in the town and so on.

I tried to find them, but it seem to be impossible.

Maybe this options not done yet all the dialogues of the game are in these 68 box?

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13 2011 2:20am
by SirHedge
The dialogue editor is very basic right now, so yes, you do need to just search through and try to find what you're looking for. Furthermore, some text you type won't show up correctly for known reasons (if you're curious you can probably find that information somewhere in this forum).

To edit stats, names, and levels you need to use SF2Edit.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13 2011 2:47am
by Vegeta9001
Thanks i guess i just have to search which is going to be extremely long, but oh well...

So far i did a good job with the character/monster sprites i changed most of them.

But now i'm to Zeon and there a way to change Zeon sprites on the map?

I wanted to make him look different i was able to change his battle sprites and his Portraits i worked over 2 hours on them and then i just saw that i cannot change his sprites on the map.

So i tested it out he does look like i wanted only his sprites is still the same it's kind of destroying the whole thing. XD

Any idea how to change his sprites on the map?

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13 2011 2:50am
by Stordarth
Editing the large battle sprites isn't implemented yet. The only way you could get around it is to use a smaller sprite to get the look you want and change Zeon's sprite index via hex editing to look for the new sprite.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13 2011 6:53am
by Earl
The first ~6 banks of text are basic system things you probably shouldn't mess with. Stuff like "[Name] is poisoned!", "[Name] dropped [item]", "Which save would you like to load" type things that, whatever you have in mind, don't need to be changed.

I don't have a ton down, but here's the start:

Mother
511: Good morning {LEADER}!{N}You woke up late this{N}morning.{W2}
512: Did the storm wake you up?{W2}
484: Hurry to school!{N}Sir Astral and {NAME;1} must{N}be waiting.{W1}
(484 repeats)

After that... well... it's not total chaos -- I haven't looked too hard at it, but there don't seem to be lines from Pacalon mixed in with the Granseal stuff -- but it's not in that great an order, and you'll have to do some hunting to find what you're looking for. I mean hell, the first in-game line is 511, and it skips backward to 484 pretty quickly.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13 2011 7:11am
by Vegeta9001
"EDITED"

For those who readed my original messages, well don't worry about it i found out what was wrong.

Everything seem nice now.

It was a simple problem with Caravan + SF2 editor and the dialogue and character name.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Wed May 11 2011 1:19pm
by RastaOddeye
Only thing i can see that could be improved would be instead just naming everything filename and number, such as "Battle Sprite 42", you could rename them to say "Battle Sprite Lesser Demon".
But, other than that, it's brilliant!

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Wed May 11 2011 3:45pm
by HappySquid
Hey guys!
Maybe I'm just stupid again, but is it possible to change the color palettes of the Sprite, which is shown on the battlefield, not on the Combat Screen, the small one.^^

I'm now using PSP7 as recommended from Stordarth. But my Problem is, if I change the palette in PSP7 and import it into the caravan it doesnt' change, it stays the same as it was before. Was testing it for Jaha.
I have two pictures to illustrate, what I mean. ;)

Image


Image

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Wed May 11 2011 6:12pm
by Stordarth
HappySquid wrote:Hey guys!
Maybe I'm just stupid again, but is it possible to change the color palettes of the Sprite, which is shown on the battlefield, not on the Combat Screen, the small one.^^

I'm now using PSP7 as recommended from Stordarth. But my Problem is, if I change the palette in PSP7 and import it into the caravan it doesnt' change, it stays the same as it was before. Was testing it for Jaha.
I have two pictures to illustrate, what I mean. ;)

Image


Image

My bad, I should have clarified that.

Map sprites (the one on the battle map) all use the same palette. There's no way around that sadly. Battle sprites and portraits should all change though.

How are you getting to grips with psp?

Basically, you'll have to approximate the map sprite as close as you can using the colours in the current palette.

Here:

Image

You should still be able to get a fair approximation using those.

Don't forget though, unlike the battle sprites, where changing one frame's palett will fix them all, the map sprites all need to be exported and altered individually.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Wed May 11 2011 7:54pm
by HappySquid
Stordarth wrote: My bad, I should have clarified that.

Map sprites (the one on the battle map) all use the same palette. There's no way around that sadly. Battle sprites and portraits should all change though.

How are you getting to grips with psp?

Basically, you'll have to approximate the map sprite as close as you can using the colours in the current palette.

Here:

Image

You should still be able to get a fair approximation using those.

Don't forget though, unlike the battle sprites, where changing one frame's palett will fix them all, the map sprites all need to be exported and altered individually.


Going pretty well with PSP, thanks again for the recommandation. It's a pity the palette is fix, but I'll get along with it. Thanks for all the help and I'll continue experimenting with the tools. :D
Btw.: That are the final Sprites for the recolor. (EDIT: I hate the pink nose in the original^^)

Image

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Wed May 11 2011 8:59pm
by Stordarth
That map sprite looks pretty close to what you were aiming for in the portrait. nicely done. did it import ok?

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Thu May 12 2011 1:20am
by HappySquid
It looks a little darker ingame and I did some small adjustments, but it works fine now. :D

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Thu May 12 2011 3:09am
by Hirsute
That's a really good re-colour.
I removed the red nose too in my latest mod - still very much in progress.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Thu May 12 2011 3:41am
by nightshade00123
Wow looks like everybody hates the red nose because I too have removed it and all his freckles. I couldn't stand looking at that thing any longer.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Thu May 12 2011 11:44am
by Stordarth
HappySquid wrote:It looks a little darker ingame and I did some small adjustments, but it works fine now. :D

It looks like you're going for a more gritty style recolour? In any event, I'd like to see the results.

With a gritty recolour, it might be a good idea to recolour map palettes too, to make the environments less vibrant.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Thu May 12 2011 5:06pm
by RastaOddeye
Slight problem im having is it won't allow me to save when i modify map sprites.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Thu May 12 2011 5:09pm
by Stordarth
Are you editing the milestone or the 12 man marathon?

OOH! Hello Gold Star # 2! :)

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Thu May 12 2011 5:15pm
by RastaOddeye
Just editing the original shining force 2 rom at the moment while i get the hang of things!
and hey there mr 2 white stars ;)

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Thu May 12 2011 5:25pm
by Stordarth
Can you post the error you keep getting? It might give me a clue whats up. Though equally, it might not. worth a look. :lol:

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Thu May 12 2011 8:33pm
by RastaOddeye
Stordarth wrote:Can you post the error you keep getting? It might give me a clue whats up. Though equally, it might not. worth a look. :lol:



It wont let me copy it or print screen it :/

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Thu May 12 2011 9:08pm
by Stordarth
When it says the error is copied to clipboard, it should be ready to paste.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Thu May 12 2011 9:29pm
by RastaOddeye
I restarted the whole hack, and redid it and now its all fine :)
Cheers fer the help mate :)

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Fri May 13 2011 12:52am
by Stordarth
No worries.

Lets try and keep discussions to your reverse hack thread though from here, we're taking this one a bit off topic.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sat May 14 2011 12:28pm
by Earl
For those of you who are interested in the dialog...

239 - The Ancient Tower is a{N}sacred place where only the{N}King can go.{W1}
... and the next line seen in gameplay ...
880 - Mmmm....{N}Hmmm...mmmm....{W1}

Which was in Bank 34.

I had given up finding the next line, assuming that the text that accompanies an event would be somehow tied up in the event. Then I just figured 'Hey, there's only 67' and started going through them all. Which is good, because as I went, there were a few chunks of text I missed, and now I know where they are.

The intro text wasn't so bad. It was in bank 65, which I found pretty quick. I mean, if it's not at the beginning, it's probably at the end, right? Also at the end are bookcase and well messages.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sat May 14 2011 12:37pm
by Stordarth
it might be good to have a thread with all of these text banks logged. That way, people can use the search function in their browser to quickly locate the text they want, assuming they know the line they're after, since the caravan currently lacks this search capability.

I know myself when hacking those campaign videos and teh salibu stuff, that it was the most time consuming part of the hack outside of portrait editing.

They can be separated into a single post by quotes for each text bank, and the whole thing spoilered.

i'm tempted to get on that myself unless you've got them all logged somewhere Earl.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sun May 15 2011 8:28am
by Earl
I was just going through the game normally, and erasing lines as I came across them (so I could keep track of what I'd already found). I think it's easier to do it that way than to go by bank -- at least for me it seems easier to keep straight in my head skipping around the banks, rather than skipping around the game's chronology.

What I've been doing is adding lines to a .txt in this sort of format:
Chester
887 - Oops!{W1}
(walks to Astral)
888 - Sorry, sir!{W1}

Sarah (walks beside Chester)
889 - Well, we just followed you....{W1}

Astral (faces Sarah)
88a - Don't lie to me.{N}You wanted to see the{N}castle, didn't you?{W1}

Because if you're changing stuff, some stage direction will be handy to understand context.

Also, because it's such a massive thing and could quickly grow beyond my means to keep track of, I've been breaking it up by area. So I've got a .txt of the intro, one of the witch, one for Granseal, Yeel, Hawel's house... Right now, I'm not sure whether I'll have separate files for Granseal first visit and Granseal return trip (the one that ends with the earthquake)...

If someone else would like to give me a hand, I would love them forever and ever.
But considering that the first stage of my hack will take me to that earthquake bit and I'm already about halfway there, I call dibs on everything pre-Grans relocation.



If anyone would like an extended example, I've attached the intro.
Which, I'm kind of embarrassed to admit, is the first time I've watched the whole thing...

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sun May 15 2011 12:09pm
by Stordarth
Oh i see. You're reordering the story text lines based on when they appear in the story?

That will be handy to know as well.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sun May 15 2011 12:52pm
by Hirsute
omg if we had a way to cross-reference the text banks with where they appear in the game... that would save sooo much time.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sun May 15 2011 6:33pm
by Stordarth
Hirsute wrote:omg if we had a way to cross-reference the text banks with where they appear in the game... that would save sooo much time.

Between Earl's and mine, that should be doable once they're finished. Earl's will be in story order with the line number, you can search for the line number in mine to find the text bank it sits in. Everyone wins.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sun May 15 2011 7:49pm
by nightshade00123
I'm so glad somebody decided to undertake this.......................lord knows this would be very difficult for me because of time restraints, so I hope the best for you gentleman.

Seeing this makes me look forward to a finished caravan, no matter how long it takes, so we can play all new shining force games made by the community and such, it's going to be so awesooooome having new stories, characters, and all the other ideas implemented that people have and cannot yet do.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Wed May 18 2011 6:31am
by Earl
Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Heh.

You know what would be really handy? Something that would show you what text looked like as you entered it, so you could figure out where to put line breaks without guessing and without having to check in-game. Other than that minor thing, the text revisions are going smoothly. Maybe I'll be able to put something out in the next week or two.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Wed May 18 2011 6:54am
by Noma
Earl wrote:Image


The best thing I've ever seen...ever. :thumbsup:

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Wed May 18 2011 8:26am
by nightshade00123
[quote="Earl"]Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

LOL that's great. I would play a mod without any changes to statistics or characters what so ever if it had text just like that through the WHOLE game.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Wed May 18 2011 2:14pm
by Stordarth
Nicely done Earl.

And I totally agree. Text placement is a real pain with no indicator. One of the most time consuming parts was test and line break and restest for my SOS hacks. There's no real standard for it either. Kinda just have to eyeball it and hope for the best.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Wed May 18 2011 3:48pm
by Hirsute
Earl that's fantastic. Now I'll have to re-do all the dialogue in my mod.

Also, is there not a set number of characters per line, or is it more complicated than that?

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Thu May 19 2011 7:02am
by Earl
Hirsute wrote:Also, is there not a set number of characters per line, or is it more complicated than that?

The font is variable width, (so "iiiiiiiii" takes up less room than "MMMMMM") so it is more complicated.

I'm kind of getting a feel for it, but Stor's right. The only standard -- if you can call it that -- in the original game seems to be 'make this dialogue take up three lines, whether it needs to or not'. Heh. Maybe they had the same kind of problem, and just erred on the side of caution (eg, just getting it displayed, not getting it displayed in the least amount of lines).

At the moment, there doesn't seem to be any limit as to how much new text you can put in. Granted, I haven't really pushed it in any single place, but I have probably added quite a bit cumulatively. Maybe I'll be paying for this later on... but the way this is going "later on" will be MUCH later.

And thanks for the comments. In feel, I'm going for something like Your Highness. The switching around of characters offers up some funny possibilities, too... for instance, Khris replaces Sarah and Tao replaces Kazin, so they'll be running off together at the end...

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Thu May 19 2011 9:02pm
by Stordarth
Khris: Tao's 'special' friend.

:lol:

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Fri May 20 2011 12:56am
by Mixfortune
I seemed to recall something about the text editing being "incomplete" in the sense that it could cause future lines to corrupt or break. Does this only then seem to occur if even a single text box breaks its tables/limitations, or can this occur as an anomaly regardless due to some sort of compression wizardry?

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Fri May 20 2011 7:16am
by Earl
I haven't had any kind of problem like that. Maybe I'm just not far enough in to see the disastrous results that effect things further into the game... maybe I haven't pushed against the limits hard enough to cause weirdness... at this point, I have no idea.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sat May 28 2011 5:27pm
by Stordarth
Anyone else think this should have been stickied ages ago?

(Stickies)

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sat May 28 2011 5:50pm
by nightshade00123
I agree. No reason to let something this valuable just slip away.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18 2011 6:29am
by Noma
Aldur requested someone upload the Caravan, as he can't download it from where BNC uploaded it. So here is a mirror:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VU9SNHUC

One more:

http://www.4shared.com/file/nMcnfTfh/Caravan-v06-UNSTABLE.html

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02 2013 6:37am
by Mormegil
since i am new here i wanted to ask, is this the latest version of this editor ?

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02 2013 11:16pm
by Noma
Yes.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23 2013 7:35pm
by sulfuroxp
I need another mirror :/

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23 2013 8:00pm
by Noma

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24 2013 5:01am
by Earl
It's also available at RHDN.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27 2013 1:04am
by Noma
My post is now redundant! :thumbsup:

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Mon Nov 18 2013 1:38pm
by ssjkiego
Id hate to be rude and ask if this tool is still in the works but i really would
Like to make a hack where i can change the events

For example in an earlier post i read during txt modding : (chester faces sarah)

Events like that arent changable if i make it diffrent in the txt log correct?
Having chester walk up to bowie instead or facing sarah. I dont mind waiting
But if i can already do that now.....omg....full hack inc

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15 2013 12:51am
by SirHedge
The Caravan is not officially in development anymore, though that doesn't mean there isn't progress on the hacking front. The community game, so far as I know, is working on their own from-scratch engine. And Earl has been great about learning the events in the game. The only issue for him is that he doesn't have an editor to use to add in the events so it's all hex editing, which can be extremely tedious. Still, progress!

Simple example of some event editing can be found here:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21240&p=643291&hilit=cursed+cursor#p602606

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Tue Dec 17 2013 7:21am
by Earl
Yeah, editing the fun stuff isn't really hard, it's mostly just annoying.
Several of the data chunks have bytes for the size of the whole chunk, and when you're branching around you're going x bytes one way or the other... so when you make changes, it can be hard to keep track of all the places you need to change to keep all those branches aimed at the right places.

On the one hand, it's only really worth changing things for a whole-game conversion.
On the other, that would be an epic crapton of work.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12 2019 12:48pm
by Cadash
Очень жаль, рип

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13 2019 2:22pm
by FfuzzyLogik
Excuse me Cadash but its quite hard to read... My native language isn't english either but please, translate...

I haven't find nice tools for that but there is some program who helps for palette ? As Caravan uses .gif, its required you put gif with the appropriate palette.

I re-made sarah's face using other SF face (copy paste the parts of face are changed when she talks and put it on the side) but, when I finished all, my DAMED program rework the palette and so... The bad colour is used for "transparency"... I don't find good tool to work on palette.
2Sarah2.gif

I intend to change some heroe's faces quite soon but need something to deal with this palette problem...

Probably some of you have some ? Or some advices... I tryed to use GIMP, Photo philtre and worst of all Paint...
Thank you for your attention, see you.

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13 2019 10:12pm
by Wiz
Hey FfuzzyLogik,

I remember having myself a hard time finding a good method to arrange GIF or PNG palettes according to my own tools.
Eventually I found out that Photoshop was clever enough to do some work all by itself, here's what I did :
1. Open 16-colour GIF/PNG file with Photoshop
2. Select the whole image surface and cut the content to keep it in the clipboard
3. Edit the current palette and switch colours in order to put the transparent one on the index you want (most probably 0)
4. And then paste back the image content : Photoshop automatically re-computes pixel colour indexes according to the current palette.
5. You can now save your image with the proper transparency index.

I believe the game expects the transparency colour at index 0, and so do my SF2DISASM tools. Although I can't confirm for BNC's The Caravan right now, this should be the same.

I you don't have Photoshop, I don't know if GIMP has the same ability as Photoshop to re-compute colour indexes, but this method is worth a try. :)

Re: The Caravan v0.6 UNSTABLE

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14 2019 4:55pm
by FfuzzyLogik
Hello,

Thanks for your answer. I tryed a bit fast with GIMP (I have not Photoshop).
On it I don't find how to do the step 3. I think its the 0 who is transparent in Caravan and its black but there is some "other" black non transparent. They are probably different but hard to find whitch black is the good one ^^

After some time of try I used Photophiltre, the hardest was to not confound the two black ones to deal with it but I finally suceed ! Now I can hope to make new images for heroes in fight and faces too !
Coool !
I tested in game it works WOOOW ! This face is truly "nicer" than the old one I find. Its a bit long and fastidious to work with the parts of eyes (are on the side) and mouth (to place them according to the previous face) but it works nicely !
I also made "new item" directly with caravan...