Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01 2018 4:07am
by Runesamurai
I don't really see why people say Peter is so strong. I even promote him at level 40 and he still seems pretty casual. Karna is way more overpowered if you ask me. Not only does she dispatch enemies much more easily than Peter but she can easily keep your whole team alive without you even needing to bring any Healing Water into the final battle. I didn't even use Healing Water at all on my first playthrough all because of her. If any character in this game is OP it's Karna not Peter.

Do I think Peter is weak? No absolutely not. Peter IS a great character. But I do not find him overpowered or broken. Just good. He's solid high-tier. Just a little above average/mid-tier. Like Gerhalt. I've found Peter to be slightly more powerful than Gerhalt but that's pretty much it. And no I'm not saying Gerhalt isn't good. He's an all around great character. Both are a great asset to your team. But I've found that my other characters take out enemies more easily than Peter does. Like Kazin, Karna, and Tyrin, And well, any high level Sorcerer. I kinda feel like I get more use out of Slade too.

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01 2018 1:02pm
by MXC
If you have inflated levels, it kind of skews things. But if you keep levels to a normal point, promote at 20, finish the game around 26-30, then Peter tends to do a lot of damage, have high HP, and a lot of freedom. He's easily a top 5 character, depending on your play style. I don't think he's overpowered but he's damn good.

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03 2018 4:54pm
by Remuko
I just dont like that hes better at the job he does than everyone else that does that job.

Sure Karna is OP too but that doesnt make him not OP and shes OP because she has broken spells peter has NO spells and is still broken. Thats impressive.

Peter gains more stats per level pre-promotion than some units gain post promotion, and even then he regularly gets +3s to stats while most other units never do even post promotion.

Ive never ended the game while using peter without him having like 120+ hp and atk and like close to 100 agi and def. He makes other melee units seem bad by comparison. he has the same range of mov as centaurs but hes not hindered by terrain. he's tankier than the barons and about as tanky as the gladiators. he hits harder than like literally any ally in the game and has the most hp (usually). If he had like 15 less defense or so, then he'd be a mobile glass cannon, which is fine, but as is hes a mobile self-resetting nuclear warhead.

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03 2018 5:11pm
by Devonathan
I’m not sure I would call him overpowered, but he is certainly a top 3 character in the game. I’ll often not use him during my normal playthroughs, but I always put him on the team for my super runs.

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05 2018 3:13pm
by Runesamurai
I've seen so many people talk about how broken and OP Peter is but I find him pretty balanced. Karna is easily the most overpowered character if you ask me. She's just plain broken. I've gotten her to level 99 early on with Boost abuse leaving all my other characters way behind to the point of looking wimpy and then she wrecks most things unless she gets Muddled by a Mist Demon. Not only that, But she can keep my whole team alive all the way to the final battle and beyond without me even needing Healing Water.

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06 2018 10:21pm
by greyskies
Runesamurai wrote:I've seen so many people talk about how broken and OP Peter is but I find him pretty balanced. Karna is easily the most overpowered character if you ask me. She's just plain broken. I've gotten her to level 99 early on with Boost abuse leaving all my other characters way behind to the point of looking wimpy and then she wrecks most things unless she gets Muddled by a Mist Demon. Not only that, But she can keep my whole team alive all the way to the final battle and beyond without me even needing Healing Water.


I don't really see the point in comparing a level 99 Karna to a Level 99 Peter - as in both cases any character is broken, some more, some less.

It's easy to see why Peter is considered overpowered - his ATT is always top tier, since he is not using weapons he benefits more than most party members from power ring boosts, his DEF & HP are solid, and on top of that he has great movement (which is his biggest advantage over Gerhalt, who is usually slightly worse in all other categories as well).
But I agree, Karna is even more broken - not because she can become quite a powerhouse as a MMNK, but because she has this little spell called Boost at her disposal. And Boost... well, don't even get me started.

I think the reason why everybody thinks Peter first when it comes to unbalanced characters is because you get him rather early, and he is already a heavy hitter at a time when you are running a small party of mediocre fighters.

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08 2018 4:11am
by Runesamurai
I see. How many people actually get characters to level 99 other than Master Monks though? Even with the Protect Ring that would still be really time-consuming.

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08 2018 12:45pm
by MXC
I think the highest I've ever gotten any character is Slade to 32 when I was a kid because I just had a feeling he could learn Rajin 3. This was before I knew of any sites. I'm just now a power-leveler and have always liked my force balanced in levels. I also rarely use boost, because it feels cheap ;)

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08 2018 2:01pm
by greyskies
Runesamurai wrote:I see. How many people actually get characters to level 99 other than Master Monks though? Even with the Protect Ring that would still be really time-consuming.

Well, getting a MMNK to level 99 is also really time-consuming, at least from my perspective :) Also, one could always use an editor.

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09 2018 12:25am
by Runesamurai
greyskies wrote:Well, getting a MMNK to level 99 is also really time-consuming, at least from my perspective :) Also, one could always use an editor.

Clearly you've never heard of the Boost Level 2 grinding strategy...

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10 2018 7:04am
by ZethaPonderer
Runesamurai wrote:
greyskies wrote:Well, getting a MMNK to level 99 is also really time-consuming, at least from my perspective :) Also, one could always use an editor.

Clearly you've never heard of the Boost Level 2 grinding strategy...


While I agree with you that Karna is overpowered due to Boost Level 2 being the most broken spell in SF2 same could also be said for Sheela on that matter as well.

Peter is overpowered IMO because of his insane damage output compared to the rest of the force (if played normally and no spell abusing to grind for level maxing), his ability to be revived automatically without costing you any gold, and having Resistance to Fire Magic after promotion taking Half the Damage which helps. Not so much at the end of the game though since enemies and bosses at that point use FREEZE, BOLT, and DEMON BREATH attacks.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Peter seem to have the highest Attack Growth in SF2 or is it Gerhalt or Claude or Zynk?

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10 2018 4:01pm
by ehow22
He also gets the "float" movement type which is pretty much flying with the Land Effect bonus, pre-promotion.

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11 2018 1:51am
by MXC
Yeah, he’s much closer to broken before promotion.

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11 2018 5:11pm
by greyskies
Runesamurai wrote:
greyskies wrote:Well, getting a MMNK to level 99 is also really time-consuming, at least from my perspective :) Also, one could always use an editor.

Clearly you've never heard of the Boost Level 2 grinding strategy...

uh, that's less of a strategy and more of an obvious feature. But it still takes forever.

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15 2018 6:36pm
by Dark Maiden
I wouldn't say overpowered, but Peter is definitely top tier.

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16 2018 3:38am
by DomingoRules!
Runesamurai wrote:I don't really see why people say Peter is so strong. I even promote him at level 40 and he still seems pretty casual.

I did a play through recently where I promoted at Level 40, and even though I only did it with four characters (that being the maximum party size I was using) Peter wound up being my weakest character as a result, including characters he's always superior to in every way when I promote at 20, so I'd say a Level 40 Promotion run is definitely not his strong suit.

As for comparing him to Gerhalt, I could be wrong since I rarely use Gerhalt but if I recall I think Gerhalt can be slightly stronger offensively, but has far worse defense and HP.

I think the thing that makes Peter so overpowered is that he's a jack of all trades without any distinct weaknesses. Whereas almost every other character in the game has flaws that offset their strengths to make more balanced units, Peter is essentially without fault. Even his weakness to ice scarcely matters because of how much HP he gets. Like was said above, he hits harder than your glass cannons, can take more abuse than your tanks, and has unrivaled mobility due to his combined high movement and flight. Sure he can't use magic, but he hits harder than most spells anyway so doesn't need them.

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20 2018 6:19am
by Remuko
DomingoRules! wrote:
Runesamurai wrote:I don't really see why people say Peter is so strong. I even promote him at level 40 and he still seems pretty casual.

I did a play through recently where I promoted at Level 40, and even though I only did it with four characters (that being the maximum party size I was using) Peter wound up being my weakest character as a result, including characters he's always superior to in every way when I promote at 20, so I'd say a Level 40 Promotion run is definitely not his strong suit.

As for comparing him to Gerhalt, I could be wrong since I rarely use Gerhalt but if I recall I think Gerhalt can be slightly stronger offensively, but has far worse defense and HP.

I think the thing that makes Peter so overpowered is that he's a jack of all trades without any distinct weaknesses. Whereas almost every other character in the game has flaws that offset their strengths to make more balanced units, Peter is essentially without fault. Even his weakness to ice scarcely matters because of how much HP he gets. Like was said above, he hits harder than your glass cannons, can take more abuse than your tanks, and has unrivaled mobility due to his combined high movement and flight. Sure he can't use magic, but he hits harder than most spells anyway so doesn't need them.


Yup well said at the end. Perfect summation.

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09 2018 7:14am
by abig84
I noticed leveling up his stats go up way more then bowie's does. Pretty much increases of 2s and 3s where bowies is mostly 1's and 2's with the occasional 3's.

Peter is usually the one to take out zeon as I send everyone else up first to get murdered and Peter takes him out.

WARNING: SPOILER!

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11 2018 10:47am
by acsound
In my head canon, Peter's a manifestation/avatar of Volcanon; this way, Volcanon can help the Shining Force seal Zeon w/o leaving his pedestal at Bedoe. Deities are known to be stealth mentoring jerks like that, even in extant RL religions. ;)

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13 2018 6:25am
by DomingoRules!
abig84 wrote:I noticed leveling up his stats go up way more then bowie's does. Pretty much increases of 2s and 3s where bowies is mostly 1's and 2's with the occasional 3's.

Peter is usually the one to take out zeon as I send everyone else up first to get murdered and Peter takes him out.

WARNING: SPOILER!

WARNING: SPOILER!

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25 2018 2:14am
by Space King
Peter has the highest stats in the game (ignoring AGI, which does nothing since this isn't a Wizardry clone), the only one that isn't at the absolute top is Def, which is just tied with the warriors and Rick. He'll receive only chip damage from physical attacks in normal difficulty.

As a matter of efficiency, where the time you put in to get through the game is all that matters, no other character is quite as high. Zoom through the maps, kill all the things, don't have to bother with the weapon shop, never have to spend time reviving him if he dies, rank 1 character for sure. Really makes the nerfed birdmen look like poop in comparison.

The old debates over the use of the running pimento demonstrate two different mentalities. Sure, you can use it on Claude and get a 6 move melee guy who's functional identical to every Baron on your team. Or you could go all in on Peter and get this 11 move murder machine that only requires 2 turns to run through the entire map.

Fire Emblem Pitfalls touches on these ideas a bit. I'm still the guy who blew hours of my life leveling up my robot waifu in SF1.

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25 2018 8:20pm
by Runesamurai
Space King wrote:Peter has the highest stats in the game (ignoring AGI, which does nothing since this isn't a Wizardry clone), the only one that isn't at the absolute top is Def, which is just tied with the warriors and Rick. He'll receive only chip damage from physical attacks in normal difficulty.

I didn't find this to be the case. I tried promoting my team at level 20 only once but found they were all getting slaughtered on the fight that comes before the chess battle. I deleted that save immediately and didn't bother to continue.
Space King wrote:As a matter of efficiency, where the time you put in to get through the game is all that matters, no other character is quite as high. Zoom through the maps, kill all the things, don't have to bother with the weapon shop, never have to spend time reviving him if he dies, rank 1 character for sure. Really makes the nerfed birdmen look like poop in comparison.

He's way better than both Luke and Skreech that goes without saying. But I still don't think I could solo a later map with him without him dying.
Space King wrote:The old debates over the use of the running pimento demonstrate two different mentalities. Sure, you can use it on Claude and get a 6 move melee guy who's functional identical to every Baron on your team. Or you could go all in on Peter and get this 11 move murder machine that only requires 2 turns to run through the entire map.

I always use them on Claude and Zynk since I find them to be the only logical choices.
Space King wrote:Fire Emblem Pitfalls touches on these ideas a bit. I'm still the guy who blew hours of my life leveling up my robot waifu in SF1.

Ah yes good old Adam. I love him too. He's amazing. I found that he gets even stronger than Guntz in fact. Bleu and Adam are literally the two very best characters in SF1 stat-wise. Bleu is just straight up and downright broken. It isn't long before he can practically oneshot bosses and usually only takes 1 damage from them. Same goes for Adam.

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26 2018 4:54am
by DomingoRules!
Adam's amazing with the right effort. Problem is that in the time it takes to grind him up to a reasonable level so that he'll actually be useable, you can pretty much have already beaten the rest of the game.

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13 2018 7:11pm
by FfuzzyLogik
Seeing how long it is to level him up to a decent level I stopped to upgrade Adam when all was to re-do when he grows up... He came late in game so its a bit long to level him with his low basic stats.

About Peter how to say... I hate him !
He's the fastest unit in game - he resurrects - he has insane attack and needn't any weapon - has a good life - is fire resistant and all this with nothing to "find" to get him "that strong"... Not even a mithril item or something to boost him at those very strong stats... I find him quite game breaking if you have just levelled him decently. If you boost him a bit (levelling him to 30 before growing for example) he become insane...

Samely, when starting the game (decades ago) I was intrested by Slade because he has some strengh and some weaknesses at start. So I thought, cool he'll become nice later its like a challenge to grow him up. But samely at the end he's quite "insane". Stronger in fight than other fighters with some OP item (Gisarme) and very nice attack, fastest land unit (with 7 too), very decent other stats, and best spells than mages ! Yes, mages do truly less damage in MAGIC ! . . . Ennemies have no resistance to Katon and Raijin...

Here, you got two samples of unit who have just strenghs and no really weakness... I think it can be named "overpowered". Stronger than fighter in combat, more speed all the game and no problem of terrain, truly decent in defense... Well... That's what I dislike : I find him not fun.

I find intresting characters are "some unit with some advantages but weaknesses" and so you'll have to use the "good and bad" stats of your heroes. That's how I find a "good" character (out of just the "good looking"). Claude (out of his name) is intresting because he's resistant to "hit" but weak against spells (due to low HP) that's fun ! If you use him well, he can tank damage (and I find that normal) but fear magic. He's basically slow so you "need" to compensate that... That's intresting in my mind.

Just to detail one more thing on Peter (and some "no weapon heroes") : In one level when grow up, you can win 3 attack. You can notice than every new weapon you can buy, it gives you something like 3 or 4 bonus in attack... So it means 1 level = one new item... What the use of having item, you just have to give 1-2 levels and you get the equivalent of bonus of "mithril item". If you had to find him (if he was hidden somewhere) or if you needed to give him special hidden promotion or if young it was hard to level him up... I'd say "okay its a bit too strong but thats nice to get such advantage because of difficulty to have it".
But lets try to play a game without him ? You'll see that its quite harder... (I don't say the game is hard because ennemies are quite stupid but he makes a real difference if not in game at start, truly more important than any other hero you can have at the stage you have him... And even later...).

Re: Peter is overpowered?

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18 2018 5:33pm
by DomingoRules!
Slade's weakness is his low defense, and magic points. He has the strength to be a front-line unit like other fighters, but lacks their survivability. Sure his spells are powerful compared to other mage options, but his MP doesn't support its utilization, allowing only two or maybe three casts a battle whereas wizards can keep spamming spells the entire battle. At least with Slade though, you're rewarded for your effort with a great character because prior to promotion he's nothing special. Add to it that he starts off incredibly weak, and if he falls behind (which can happen very easily) he'll stay there.

Peter, on the other hand, becomes your best character with no effort at all. It just kind of happens whether you want it to or not.