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Unpromoted May class

Ranger or Archer Knight

Discussion about this classic Genesis/Mega Drive game.

Should May's class be Archer Knight in an alternate universe where SF2 was made by the community.

Yes
2
25%
No
6
75%
 
Total votes : 8

Unpromoted May class

Postby knight0fdragon » Thu Apr 04 2019 11:58pm

We have a little bit of a debate going on over in the Shining Force 3 board discussing David's Ranger class.

This brought up a topic that Waltz and Jusin should be considered Archer Knights and David should remain "'Ranger" ala the current translation.

This got me thinking, what do you folks think about May having her class changed to Archer Knight if we were to go back in time and remake SF2, or do you guys feel Ranger works for her?
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Re: Unpromoted May class

Postby DomingoRules! » Fri Apr 05 2019 1:56am

I would stick with Ranger. Archer Knight just comes off as lazy, and that centaurs automatically being considered knights is just an excuse to be that way. If anything, I would rather her promoted class be changed into something that stands out a bit more from the rest of the party's centaurs. Either that, or make Ranger the promoted class, and come up with a lesser form for when not promoted. Maybe something like Bowman, Marksman, Cavalry, or Equestrian Archer/Sniper, although that last one would probably be tricky to clearly abbreviate into four letters.
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Re: Unpromoted May class

Postby DiegoMM » Fri Apr 05 2019 12:14pm

To be honest I dont think in any reason to May having a different class than Elric and Janet. If I remake, I would change May, Justin, Waltz, etc to be Archer and become Sniper after promotion. They are already essentially the same class, even the move is lower than a normal Knight. It would be just a case of a different species having the same class.
If not, lowe should be "Hobbit Healer", Khris "Kyantol Healer".
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Re: Unpromoted May class

Postby MXC » Fri Apr 05 2019 1:40pm

I've never much cared for Ranger myself, but also didn't much care for Bow Knight. I assume the name is because she's a centaur and in SF, Centaur = Knight. However, I can get behind that naming convention if it is consistent. To that end, I'm not sure why they changed May's classes away from what Lyle has. Assault Knight -> Strike Knight.

Of course, if you wanted to be more interesting, there are historical names for mounted Japanese archers, Kasagake and Yabusame. How those translate to SF is up for debate though.
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Re: Unpromoted May class

Postby FfuzzyLogik » Fri Apr 05 2019 4:32pm

On SF2 I think they just made a different class here to change the speed and moove type. Out of that, I don't really find use to make different class : use same stuff (at same levels)... Also May cannot become "tank shooter"... Class I find personnaly ugly... So I think its just of use for technical use in SF2.
IDK for SF3 if it has "other goal" or not.
So if it's required to make her "more fast" and "slower in forest", lets get her a new class. If its not necessary I don't find some use to make differenciation for "archer knight".
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Re: Unpromoted May class

Postby DomingoRules! » Sat Apr 06 2019 1:53am

DiegoMM wrote:If not, lowe should be "Hobbit Healer", Khris "Kyantol Healer".

I feel like that in particular would make things excessively complicated. Isn't every healer in SF1 a different race?
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Re: Unpromoted May class

Postby DiegoMM » Sat Apr 06 2019 2:11pm

yes thats my point, a different race shouldnt be enough to make the class name different, so May should be archer OR they should make more changes in ranger class to justify a totally new class.
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Re: Unpromoted May class

Postby knight0fdragon » Sat Apr 06 2019 4:39pm

DiegoMM wrote:To be honest I dont think in any reason to May having a different class than Elric and Janet. If I remake, I would change May, Justin, Waltz, etc to be Archer and become Sniper after promotion. They are already essentially the same class, even the move is lower than a normal Knight. It would be just a case of a different species having the same class.
If not, lowe should be "Hobbit Healer", Khris "Kyantol Healer".



Centaur archers and Bipedal archers behave differently, so naturally their classes should be different. It isn't about “race” but what attributes the race brings that helps determine a class.
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Re: Unpromoted May class

Postby DiegoMM » Sat Apr 06 2019 7:05pm

can you list all the diferences? I really dont know
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Re: Unpromoted May class

Postby DomingoRules! » Sat Apr 06 2019 10:20pm

The main one that comes to my mind is that I'm pretty sure archers are less hindered by movement through forests. At least they are in SF1, I can't remember off the top of my head if it's the same in the second game since rough terrain in general is far less of an issue overall throughout the game.
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Re: Unpromoted May class

Postby knight0fdragon » Mon Apr 08 2019 6:05am

May can move farther, but is impeded by terrain like forest or desert. It has been a while, but I am sure their stats are different as well.
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Re: Unpromoted May class

Postby Rune » Mon Apr 08 2019 8:36am

Stat growth and distribution is done at the character level, not the class level.
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Re: Unpromoted May class

Postby knight0fdragon » Mon Apr 08 2019 1:46pm

Not stat growth, the way the stats are distributed, Like some classes have a high defense, others have a high attack, agility, critical, etc
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Re: Unpromoted May class

Postby MXC » Mon Apr 08 2019 2:18pm

Ranger - 6 Move, Ranger Type. 1/16 Crit Rate, dealing 125% damage. Double and Counter rates are 1/32.
Bow Knight - Same as above but Counter is 1/16.

Archer - 5 Move, Archer Type. 1/16 Crit Rate, dealing 125% damage. Double and Counter rates are 1/32.
Sniper - 6 Move, Archer Type. Same as above but Counter is 1/16.

Ranger vs Archer Move Type - (Not 100% sure) Penalty on Overgrowth (1.5 vs 1.0), Forest (2.5 vs. 1.0), Hills (2.5 vs. 1.0), Sand (2.5 vs. 2.0).


From a class perspective, Ranger has a move bonus when on nicer terrain but loses it on anything more than grass, dirt, or stone. After promotion, Bow Knights really have no edge of Snipers since they have equal or worse movement all the time. May's race being a centaur is really what sets the classes apart, which is how they really should remain.


Stats are a little different, but not drastically so like Brass Gunners. May has some more attack and less HP.

May: 70 | 45 | 62 | 60
Elric: 84 | 37 | 62 | 63
Janet: 81 | 32 | 62| 65
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Re: Unpromoted May class

Postby DiegoMM » Mon Apr 08 2019 8:07pm

Thank you MXC for the clarification.

I think this difference is very very minor. Who ever had to change battle strategy because you have a ranger and not a archer? In practical terms, you never have a diferent situation having May or Janet in your team, except by the basic stats.

Other point: isnt funny that ranger is actually WORSE in forests? its go againts what we normally think about the class.
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Re: Unpromoted May class

Postby DomingoRules! » Mon Apr 08 2019 8:36pm

While I don't think I've ever had to really alter my strategy because of something like that, the movement is a primary reason why I almost never use May. 90% of the time, my archer is Sniper Elric almost entirely because of mobility. Because an archer's primary role in battle is to provide support fire for the other characters (not specifically in Shining Force, but strategy games in general), I find it imperative that they be able to get where they need to for providing said support.
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Re: Unpromoted May class

Postby Rune » Fri Apr 12 2019 7:22pm

DiegoMM wrote:Other point: isnt funny that ranger is actually WORSE in forests? its go againts what we normally think about the class.


Yes, it's as if they actually made a mistake with the name used for the ranger class.
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Re: Unpromoted May class

Postby DomingoRules! » Tue Apr 16 2019 6:09am

Rune wrote:
DiegoMM wrote:Other point: isnt funny that ranger is actually WORSE in forests? its go againts what we normally think about the class.


Yes, it's as if they actually made a mistake with the name used for the ranger class.

Maybe they figured Strike Knight wouldn't be as well suited for May than Lyle, and Ranger was just the closest thing to the already taken Archer they could come up with?
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